Question on CPU.

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Re: Question on CPU.

Postby TWC_Fatal_Error » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:59 am

Intel /Nvidia /Samsung/Corsair/ EDtracker/Warthog= Happiness :mrgreen:
i7 2700 ,32 gigs, 4 ssd's ,1 7200 terabyte,Warthog,2 mfd's,EDTracker,60 inch hd, 7inch in mfd's 21 I-inc secondary display

[*]iustus facere unus[*]
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Re: Question on CPU.

Postby TWC_Iron_Horse » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:05 am

Intel /Nvidia /Samsung/Corsair/ EDtracker/Warthog= Happiness :mrgreen:


:lol: Cannot argue with that Fatal, sheer bliss is how I see it!!

WOW Mackers!! You have been a busy bee haven't you!! Really appreciate all that you have written and will be spending quite a bit of time over the week-end looking and comparing these specs. Intel is the way I would prefer to go but AMD are cheaper which means more for your bucks.

I am finding the price is around (for a good setup) £2,000 but may well have to budget a around + £100 - £200 more. It is no good just settling for second best and making do as the making do will have to last for many more years than I can count!!

It also means that this will certainly mean no extras i.e. software for some time but that is a small price to pay.

Will let you know by next week what the final outcome is.

Again, really appreciate every-ones' input, thanks again.

Regards
Iron
I used to be an optimist but with age I am now a grumpy old pessimist.
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Re: Question on CPU.

Postby TWC_Mackers » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:00 am

Hi Iron,

Those components are what you listed - I simply seperated the things that stay the same for both Intel and AMD. These are the constants. It's easier to 'design' or 'spec' a PC build when you seperate it into groups. The storage option I suggested was to highlight that 2TB is alot of space for 5 games with maybe some images\video\music stuff.

I did spend some time reading to make sure the RAM did what it should in the mobo and that the mobo accepted the HDD connections. It did make me chuckle when I only lasted 2 minutes of reading the ASUS fluff, before I clicked straight to the important specifications tab. Never read the fluff, spec's speak louder than fluff.

That ASUS I/O riser looks abit ropey to me, some gimick for those who have a clear panel in their PC with lots of LEDS. I differ from those who want the 'space age' look - I want to see the workings - show me the solder - show me the connections - show me the manufacturer has made a good strong item. Let me see when/if something has broken, not hidden under plastic - especially when that plastic is right next to the hottest part of the PC. I dunno, poop like that is a trigger for me. A well built and neat PC looks gorgeous - a well fitted PC shouldn't need a lump of plastic 1/4 the size of the board to 'prevent breakage'. The board should be built and fitted to allow the connections to be used like good boards have been for many years. To me, thats an after thought to correct a distortion problem or simply a poop gimmick. I hope it's just a gimmick. Then again, having a dye in your water cooling with semi opaque tubing could be seen as a gimmick - but despite looking cool-as-fudge - it also highlights leaks/bubbles - especially with certain LEDs. So horses for courses there.

The GPU was unspecified except the chipset type. Manufacturer does matter here along with the model. A Cheap 2-bit chinesium branded one is to be avoided - even if the GPU chipset is listed as the one you want. Each manufacturer will make a series of cards, based on the same chipset. The core differences would be mainly RAM quantity, maybe some speed increase and the number/type of display connections. Capacity in GB is worth more than speed in little bits like a 100 hz for a GPU. Obviously, if the speed is 500-1000 hz - then that is a note worthy difference. If you have 4 HDMI monitors, you'd want to ensure the cards has those connections. For a 'one screen' wonder - it's not normally a concern.

I can't tell you what MOBO/GPU brands to go for chap - you'll soon find out that gamers tend to support MOBO/GPU brands like they would a sports team - even when they made a poop one - they will have die-hard supporters. I base my decisions on experience, not just mine - but all the clients i've supported commercially and domestically. To be fair, most brands have made poop stuff - however - some learn from their errors and negative long-term-user-experience press. Others don't and rely on the 'dumb market' that keep buying the cheapest listed one. Those same 'dumb market' users are the kind of people that think they can download faster RAM.

I hope it goes ok chap - again, the stuff I listed was to confirm what you had written. Not a suggestion on what you should get. I did this so we were looking at the exact same thing. I couldn't narrow down your GPU as there wasn't enough details to search with.

I wouldn't normally waste an evening reading fluff and garb - but you are a good guy - hence I bothered.

Waggling my wings :geek:
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Re: Question on CPU.

Postby TWC_Iron_Horse » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:16 pm

Hi Mackers, many thanks again for your advice, got me a bit worried now as I have no experience in choosing what are the best bits to install, I have previously gone and bought a ready made computer either from Dell (my first one) and then across to PC World (my second one) and just had them upgraded when I could afford it.

The computer shop I went to in Lincoln for a quote gave me one but I wanted some changes made, so far I have heard nothing from them so will go back in on Monday and see them for a fresh quote. I think from reading your reply, it would be the better option of having it built by them rather than me ordering on-line and falling into the abysses of trying to sort out types of motherboard, GPU's etc.

Cannot afford to make any mistakes.

Again, many thanks Matey, really good to know that not only TWC has the best crew but also are there to give help and advice.

Regards
Iron.
I used to be an optimist but with age I am now a grumpy old pessimist.
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Re: Question on CPU.

Postby TWC_Mackers » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:04 pm

Hi Iron,

I made the listing, using the information you provided - which was complete, except the GPU make/model. You had listed an ASUS motherboard in both AMD and Intel CPU options - if thats a manufacturer you like, look at the ASUS options for the GPU chipset (NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2070)?

Complicated things are lots of simple things put together. The only thing you are missing is a GPU make and model. In other terms, you have selected the engine type, but not the car manufacturer or the car model. So what i'm saying is - avoid the cheapest brand WhyYouGoneWrongTong and choose something that has a little more notoriety - like a Ford, Vauxhal or BMW etc. (these brands I pulled out of my butt and do not reflect a preference for either of them).

AMD uses socket AM4 and Intel uses socket 1151 for the CPU's you listed. Thats the main difference between them in terms of your motherboard selections for either CPU Brand. The rest of the components you listed are universal, the exception was the drive connection.

The 2" M2 drive you listed is fairly new to me - I've only done 1 of those so far. Most of my users have the 2.5" SATA3 SSDs - but it is a minor check to see if the board supports it - both do. Both boards you listed had SATA3 aswell. So no biggy in terms of connection, however the amount of storage was an area of cost saving for you. It would be handy if you could state what you think you would be doing to justify 2TB of storage - right off the bat - rather than expanding in a couple of years when/if needed. How much storage did your old PC have and how much was used? That would give a baseline to work with and project future requirements.

Don't get dis-heartened chap, nor overwhelmed. If they charge £50 per hour - then expect £100 for them to check your list for hardware compatibility, order, build and install it. If they do the ordering, check their mark-up compared to Scan prices (these parts wont be sat on a shelf as stock, they will be ordered on demand). A poor shop will try to get you a specific part sometimes, this part is probably one that was ordered in error and they want to ditch it. So don't accept something you don't want. In either case, you having a specific list from a good vendor will reduce arguements.

If you gave them a list, with all the links to Scan for example - you can tell what the shop will be charging you.

I've dealt with the affects of senior gamers being taken for a ride and the financial implications are horrific.

Choose a GPU manufacturer, then we can complete your list for you to take to your shop.

A good shop will probably do a deal in terms of mark-up and the build/install service.

If you get rinsed/mugged by the shop - I would take it as a personal failure on my behalf for not helping enough.

hugs n kisses fella ! :geek:
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Re: Question on CPU.

Postby TWC_Iron_Horse » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:52 pm

Hi Mackers, Babs told me not to go to the shop because of the fact that they did not bother sending me the quote I asked for, apart from that there is a story behind this and to cut it briefly, the assistant said to me on my first visit that he hates X Plane, when I said that was why I wanted a new computer they told me some time ago they built a computer for a customer who wanted one powerful enough to run VR, cutting the story short the customer, who had spent a lot of big money for the computer came back and complained that the view from the VR was not good enough.

The shop put in different components but still he was not happy. I explained to them that VR will not produce the quality that you see from the screen and will be a long time before VR catches up with the type of quality we are used to. I don't think they knew much about VR or else they would have been able to explain all that to the customer.

Anyway, I received the quote I asked for then went back as wanted to have a few things changed such as using my own Win10 instead of paying for a new one (Win10 Pro) my copy is not an OEM but a licensed upgrade from Win7 which means that my copy can be transferred to another computer then I asked a few other changes. During my conversation with him he said did not like X Plane and on asking him why he said that the customer we told you about was using X Plane with his VR. I think this could be one reason why I have not heard from them for a revised quote and after speaking to Babs she told me go for a Scan or PC Specialist one. So it is back to looking at Scan or PC Specialists. I will, if you don't mind, do my final build and give you all the info I can for you to have a look at. I think it may well be PC Specialists somehow.

One thing that does bother me is the Power supply, for an i7 or even an AMD I have noted that they have as the default a Corsair 550 Watt, I would have thought that you would need an 850? If you could let me know when you are next in here it will be a great help.

Regards
Iron.
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Re: Question on CPU.

Postby 9./JG52 Pans » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:00 pm

TWC_Iron_Horse wrote:...I don't think they knew much about VR or else they would have been able to explain all that to the customer.

During my conversation with him he said did not like X Plane and on asking him why he said that the customer we told you about was using X Plane with his VR.


Two red flags there, mate. If they're willing to take orders for building VR capable systems, the least you can expect is for them to know the current demands and limits of VR technology. That they would "not like" a particular game and let it cloud their judgement and service to other customers due to a prior bad experience caused by their own lack of knowledge speaks volumes.

Babs is right, take your money to somewhere that knows their arsehole from their elbow.

By the way, X-plane 11 in VR is great. Such a feeling of actually being in a cockpit. The true sense of depth makes a world of difference.
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Re: Question on CPU.

Postby TWC_Sp00k » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:06 pm

9./JG52 Pans wrote:
TWC_Iron_Horse wrote:...I don't think they knew much about VR or else they would have been able to explain all that to the customer.

During my conversation with him he said did not like X Plane and on asking him why he said that the customer we told you about was using X Plane with his VR.


Two red flags there, mate. If they're willing to take orders for building VR capable systems, the least you can expect is for them to know the current demands and limits of VR technology. That they would "not like" a particular game and let it cloud their judgement and service to other customers due to a prior bad experience caused by their own lack of knowledge speaks volumes.

Babs is right, take your money to somewhere that knows their arsehole from their elbow.

By the way, X-plane 11 in VR is great. Such a feeling of actually being in a cockpit. The true sense of depth makes a world of difference.



Couldnt agree more. .
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Re: Question on CPU.

Postby TWC_Mackers » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:06 pm

The PSU side of things is not just related to CPU. It's all the other things, internal/external things are also a factor. Back with mechanical HDD's you put a couple SCSI 7200rpm drives in a small waatage psu and you used to run out of chooch. These days, SSD's use alot less wattage - the big ones are CPU and GPU as you say, but still - all units come with their power ratings so calculating it is pretty easy, add a bit extra incase you get extra devices. I have the 1k version of your listed PSU and my machine peaks at 300w usage (gaming and phone charging etc) stated in the software - so I could double my machine in usage before a concern is raised. (2x GPUs/4x SSDs and 5x fans and my flight system - so not a large amount).

The AMD CPU

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd-ryz ... il-plus-wr

Max. TDP 105W - listed on the specifications. Double it to be safe when calculating PSU.

The i9 CPU

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/intel-c ... mhz-gpu-95

Max. TDP 95W - listed on the specifications. Double it to be safe when calculating PSU.

On Scan - looking at the item, scroll down to the "Product Overview" - to the right of it is the "Specifications" tab. Click it to view the specs.

If you know anyone who can nut n bolt it together (you've seen it with your own eyes - don't trust any tom dick or harry) - you'll save yourself cost and problems. Buy bits, Build bits - play.

The thermal paste / CPU mounting to and for motherboard is probably the only part that isn't "clunk-click" based seating. Screws for boards/cards/drives/fans/PSU/etc.

What happened to your old PC - I mean, you can get a feel for hardware using an old machine?
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Re: Question on CPU.

Postby TWC_Iron_Horse » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:11 pm

Two red flags there, mate. If they're willing to take orders for building VR capable systems, the least you can expect is for them to know the current demands and limits of VR technology. That they would "not like" a particular game and let it cloud their judgement and service to other customers due to a prior bad experience caused by their own lack of knowledge speaks volumes.

Babs is right, take your money to somewhere that knows their arsehole from their elbow.

By the way, X-plane 11 in VR is great. Such a feeling of actually being in a cockpit. The true sense of depth makes a world of difference.


Couldnt agree more. .


Thanks Pans and Sp00k it is very helpful having others who agree and makes my decision much more comfortable, basically I did a quick calculation for a spec I am looking at from Scan PC and without going into all the boring hardware 'faffle' but being an i7 (no overclocking) then I am looking at £2098.76 whereas the quote I received from the shop (which is only valid for 7 days) was, with upgrades (that match Scan Computers) £2030 and that was with one hard drive less than the Scan Build.
Personally, I think Scan is by far the better option as PC Specialists are a bit more expensive.

And now to Mackers!! Hello chap, again, many thanks for your reply, will try to come on TeamSpeak tonight and see if my computer plays or fails as re-installed Win10 and over the past few weeks installed everything else though had to find the enthusiasm in which to do it!! :lol:

Regards
Iron
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