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Re: TWC Mission Server Announcements, Updates

Postby TWC_Sp00k » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:44 am

Oh god where'd I put the bible? Do I own a bible? Damn, I'm going to hell and I'll never even know why!

CAn I submit religious quote from Pulp Fiction and get away with it?
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Re: TWC Mission Server Announcements, Updates

Postby TWC_Flug » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:50 am

HurstLlama wrote:Whilst writing could I also ask you to look again at the rule regarding jumping out of one's aeroplane.


Programming for CloD is like trying to repair a boat that has hundreds of leaks here and there all over the hull, all while flying over the water at top speed. And the programmer is like the little Dutch boy, trying to put his fingers in each and every one of them.

But there are so many, it is impossible.

All this started out when I realized a while ago that--ever since this server started running back in May 2016 or so--parachute landings, water landings, crash landings, and a few other such things, for both players & AI aircraft, were actually doing NOTHING.

I mean, it gives you a message and the stats dutifully record "parachute failed" or whatever, but even if your parachute failed at 35,000 feet and you got the message saying so, or you landed 40 miles from shore and received a message saying "You drowned" in fact your life still continued.

And . . . despite that massive amount of leniency//no consequence AT ALL in those areas, we still haven't had anyone break about 30 consecutive flights or so.

So, when I started adding various consequences to those actions, I decided to make them fairly lenient instead of extremely punitive. Partly because they had been COMPLETELY lenient and consequence free before.

Also there had never been any penalty for quitting the game or losing internet connection--none AT ALL. Many other servers, of necessity, make disconnection=instant death. But if a way can be found to avoid that, it seems to me to be better. Sometimes--often!--computers lock up, disconnect, or malfunction and it seems to me that DEATH is a bit of a severe penalty for that. Plus, here in the real world, it is extremely useful to be able to exit quickly on certain occasions (phone ringing, doorbell ringing, spouse calling) while taking a penalty perhaps but not completely destroying the "Air Chief Marshal" rank you've put 40 hours into building.

Thus the concept of making an exit (whether on purpose or accidental) exactly the same as parachuting at that moment. And, making the parachute option pretty safe--especially over friendly land--as it was in real life.

FYI parachuting or generally crash landing SHOULD end your mission. If not, that is a bug we can fix. (May be fixed in forthcoming new version, coming soon.)

Also the concept is that destroyed planes count somewhat against you and slow down or even reverse your rank progression. Particularly if you just jump out of an undamaged aircraft that is a "self-damage" and will register against you & end your continuous mission instantly. So that's not something you want to do a lot if you want to keep moving up the ranks quickly. So planes destroyed (especially undamaged planes) counts against you & successful landings at airport count for you. So there is incentive to return.

However, you're right & I believe that WWII pilots made the same calculation that in many situations it is indeed **better to jump and save your life** than to risk your life trying to bring an injured aircraft home. Your life is more valuable, and jumping is pretty safe! By contrast, landing a damaged aircraft is pretty unsafe.

One thing we could do is implement something of a time penalty after you have parachuted. Even just 2 minutes or so. Real pilots would not have been able to jump and then be flying off in a new a/c 30 seconds later from a base 60 miles away . . .

However (and another FYI) the "destroyed planes" thing is not completely working for unknown reasons. It is the plan but like many things (flight time etc) unfortunately not that easy to implement properly. (If you look under "planes written off" on the stats page you'll see but a few--not sure why as I'm getting the number from CloD and (for example) I just checked internal stats within CloD & I've written off a few THOUSAND planes in the past year or so. But somehow it is not reporting those planes written off back to the us for stats purposes.)
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Re: TWC Mission Server Announcements, Updates

Postby TWC_Flug » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:58 am

TWC_Hoss wrote:I think there is a problem with something because i have now been shot down 3 times and crashed in a burning wreck without bailing out and it says i survived each time but registers a death on net stats so i wasnt sure if i could fly again or take the required break. Looking at the hole in the ground each time it seemed a bit lenient in the extreme :D


This is on purpose. Like the danger of parachuting, I believe that CLoD massively overmodels the danger of relatively low-speed crashes. The paradigmatic example being the 2MPH crash into a hangar wall that results in your immediate fiery death.

So the deal is this:

- If you arrow straight into the ground at 200 MPH, you WILL die
- Similarly at 150MPh and 100MPh. Die. Instantly.
- But if you are able to slow it w-a-y down and hit the ground at more like 80MPH or 50MPH, and maybe just a bit obliquely and not just straight on in, then you MIGHT live. I bit like IRL.
- And if it is more like 20 or 10 or 5MPH then yeah, you'll live. Unless tremendously unlucky.

Honestly, when the CloD programmers got into a situation where they didn't want to or didn't know how to or didn't have time to model the actual physics, they just substituted a big glowing explosion.

In some of those situations, we're having a bit more mercy on the TWC Server.

Check the Chat Messages in those situations (also in case of "parachute failure" - which is super over-modeled in CLoD) and it will give you the actual update.
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Re: TWC Mission Server Announcements, Updates

Postby TWC_Flug » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:01 pm

TWC_Flug wrote:Programming for CloD is like trying to repair a boat that has hundreds of leaks here and there all over the hull, all while flying over the water at top speed. And the programmer is like the little Dutch boy, trying to put his fingers in each and every one of them.


Also I forgot to mention that it is pitch dark the whole time. So you find what you think is a hole and you repair it in a way that you think will fix it, but there is no way to tell for certain because you can't see anything.

Also, it's so dark you can't really tell if there are any holes or not. Or for that matter, if there is even a boat or not. Nevertheless, we're zooming through the waves at top speed and everyone is naturally expecting the boat to be completely leak-free.

All this is by way of explaining why the stats are BY THEIR VERY NATURE not completely accurate. It is not surprising that they are inaccurate, because CloD gives us only an occasional glimpse into what is actually happening and it turns out that even some of what it gives us is "inaccurate" in some way or other.

So what's actually surprising is that the stats are accurate to any degree AT ALL.

Keep in mind that actual IRL stats for WWII RAF & Luftwaffe are well known to be wildly inaccurate--off by a factor of 2 in many cases. Real life is actually very complicated and messy and it is not very easy to figure out exactly what happened in many situations. Every observer sees only part of what happens. CloD is trying to simulate real life and that means it is messy in all those same ways and then in addition it only gives us a few glimpses into what it is doing internally.

So the TWC Stats package is like an observer that has only partial information and, it turns out, some of that 'information' is inaccurate and it is all incomplete. The stats code currently has 9000 lines of code working to make sense of it all.

It isn't perfect but I can tell you that it is far, far more accurate than it was say in December when I started this latest round of updates. It is also, at this point, more accurate and far more complete than the in-game Netstats.

What's interesting is that no one was complaining about it in December . . .
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Re: TWC Mission Server Announcements, Updates

Postby HurstLlama » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Please keep plugging away, Mr. Flug. Your efforts are greatly appreciated.

Perhaps one of the reasons that more people are asking questions now compared to December is that there are more people playing "seriously" on the TWC Mission server. Let us face facts, unless one wants an outright dog-fight for the sake of it TWC is all there is left in the CloD world. What gives TWC this unique edge, well the ability to take progress over a series of sessions and for squadrons to do likewise - i.e. the Stats. Take those away, or let them become meaningless, and all TWC is Danger Dogs on steroids.
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Re: TWC Mission Server Announcements, Updates

Postby TWC_NINja » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:24 am

.


...now I know how God feels...


.
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Re: TWC Mission Server Announcements, Updates

Postby TWC_Flug » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:05 am

HurstLlama wrote:Please keep plugging away, Mr. Flug. Your efforts are greatly appreciated.


BTW I really appreciate everyone's feedback. When I say that programming for CloD is like programming in the pitch dark, a lot of it is because you make some change in the code and then the situation within CloD where that code is triggered only happens once every 30 hours or something. Personally testing everything is simply not realistically possible.

So having the feedback from people who do encounter those situations is priceless.

We do have to have the expectation, though, that we might not be able to fix everything. CLoD really is pretty flawed in certain ways and we can try to fix some of the flaws but some are just unfixable--or just not worth the work . . .
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Re: TWC Mission Server Announcements, Updates

Postby TWC_DG » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:52 am

Flug, one thing I wanted to mention but haven't till now because it is probably my own fault.

That dreaded word: framerate. (or is it twowords?)

doesn't matter, my spacebar key is broken anyway, i spilled beeer in it...

In Oct I bought a Radeon RX470 graphics card, & have been in awe of the improvement
over the thing that came with the motherboard. I have tried running it on lower resolutions,
but I keep going back to running it maxed out.

But lately I have had to put Portsmith on my "do not fly list unless you want to get killed."

My frame rates have been 80 to 105 fps over water,
around 45 over places like Benbridge,
& a miserable 14fps over Portsmith.
(I have the same problem in ATAG over Bologne...)

So,

Next Birthday, what should I upgrade my video card to, & how much should I expectto pay?

(& anytips on fixing a sticky keyboard would be appreciated...)
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Re: TWC Mission Server Announcements, Updates

Postby TWC_Brett » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:02 pm

Hey Flug,
Our paths haven't crossed yet online but just wanted to echo Hurst's appreciation and say that I'm really enjoying the TWC server so far. Only really been using it for a couple of weeks (since I was inducted to TWC), so I can't comment on how it has changed since the updates but I've not come across any major flaws so far.
Agree it is vital that people who do discover anomolies need to feedback, but in a constructive way.
Think Sp00k had an incident today where a fire truck ran into him and damaged him but other than that, I've not encountered anything.
Anyhow, appreciate the good work and hopefully see you up there soon.
Brett.
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Re: TWC Mission Server Announcements, Updates

Postby TWC_Flug » Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:08 pm

TWC_DG wrote:My frame rates have been 80 to 105 fps over water,
around 45 over places like Benbridge,
& a miserable 14fps over Portsmith.
(I have the same problem in ATAG over Bologne...)


I believe the main thing that causes that (that we as mission designers can do anything about) is the smoke from explosions & such.

The other thing that strongly affects it is cities, with many buildings etc. Unfortunately we can't do anything about that aspect--the maps are pre-set and unchangeable.

But if you have a city & smoke/explosions together, that is a recipe for slowness.

FYI when I had a weaker graphics card I kept shadows turned off & all building-related settings set to their minimum (ie, building detail to lowest setting). This made a lot of difference in framerate when over cities.
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