A dangerous place

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A dangerous place

Postby TWC_Target » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:21 pm

As some here know I'm thinking about my next machine. So now I've started to do some window shopping, not wanting to buy an HP, Gateway or any of the other off the shelf brands, as we all know they come with much unwanted garbage. And having built one and liking the end product I've come across one (so Far) web site that makes customizing a machine easy. Only thing is I'm not too sure what I should be looking for as far as parts go. The machine I have now was a kit so everything came as a package. Which pieces will play nice with which pieces is still a mystery to me, that and not knowing which direction COD is going to take in the future (specs may change with the release of the add on as it did for IL2).
Why do I babble so? I covet others opinions as seeking council is advised in the book I read quite often. Prices, parts, and reputation of the supplier is essential to avoid frustration resulting in a loss of one's cool. So here I'll ask about certain web sites to get an understanding of whether or not I'd get a good shellackin in the wallet or not. First up,
http://www.portatech.com/products/categ ... ml?id=1241
I want a machine that will take me seamlessly through flack fields and overcast, can't say I have an interest (or time) to venture outside of COD, but who knows what the future may bring. I almost bought Elite Dangerous once.
What say ye?
"Mercedis Intentio"
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Re: A dangerous place

Postby TWC_Pans » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:36 pm

If you're not afraid to learn, I would definitely recommend a self-build rather than paying a huge premium for a pre-fab custom system - it's not as mysterious or difficult as it appears or these companies would have you believe.

If you can assemble flat-pack furniture or Lego, you'll be just fine. There are plenty of guides and videos out there that will show you the fundamentals, and best of all you might be able to re-use some components from your current machine if they are good or modern enough - think power supply, hard disks, DVD drives etc. There are web stores out there that offer pre-selected bundles of well matched components (Motherboard, CPU, RAM), so either buy from them or order the same bits from elsewhere.

Re: components, I don't think you absolutely need to drop megabucks on the latest and fastest CPU. There are a lot of mid-range parts out there that are very, very capable and the difference in performance between mid and high end is relatively the lowest it has ever been. Build a half-decent machine now (think quad or octo-core CPU at 4+GHz, 16+GB RAM) and it will still be reasonably capable in 5 or 6 years. That statement would have been a stretch a decade ago and unthinkable 15 or more years ago.

The frontier that does continue to push on hard and fast is graphics cards. They take the brunt of the processing on modern games and will be where CLOD continues to make the most demands. Look at how Team Fusion's recommended minimum has moved on from what 1C originally suggested. Shopping for a graphics card is where you need to work out what you want now and in the near future and how much you can afford to spend. Then you buy the best that you can justify or at least sneak past the wife. If you're thinking that you might like to try VR when the technology matures and if it becomes available on Clod, the very least you'll be wanting to look at is an Nvidia Geforce GTX 1060 or AMD equivalent.
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Re: A dangerous place

Postby Tekk » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:21 pm

pcpartpicker.com is a great place to start. You can build a computer and tailor it to your liking, and save off a few different versions. It is also nice because it tracks prices and posts the lowest price at the time, and compares it to other places. I just built a pc and since I was in no hurry, I just would buy things as I noticed they came on sale, or dropped in price and then used price matching to get it at the store I wanted for the price I wanted.

Pans is right with a bit of research it is not that scary. Or you can always put a pc together and then get a place to build it for you for a fee ( which can save some time and head ache ). Clod is not that demanding of a game on hardware, so you definitely don't need the best of the best, nor spend a ton of money if that is your only focus. A good idea is to pick a budget, and then go from there, aiming to get the best price for performance that fits with in your budget.

Linus tech tips was a great resource for me and two months ago I didn't really know what the motherboard was or what it did. Paul's hardware, bitwit, jay's two cents and science studio are all youtubers who have how to, or build guides. ( though these guys often are more on the enthusiast side of pc building )

Here's the pc I just built, which my focus was overclocking ability to play dcs in vr , as well as aesthetics ( which definitely drove the price up higher ) and I wanted to keep some of the same brands that I had in my old computer.

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/Tekk_5 ... iew=Vx8pgs

Building your own can definitely have its pitfalls though, as one of my hard drives was not compatible with windows 7, I some how accidentally purchased the wrong cpu, and one product was not advertised well, and I didn't get what I was expecting. All of which cost me more time or money or both to solve, but was definitely rewarding when it was all sorted.

-Tekk
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Re: A dangerous place

Postby TWC_Target » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:57 pm

All good points to be considered. One of the major lessons that I've learned in this hobby is as Pans stated, the video card is the key, especially with COD. But as we know the card is dependent on other components within the PC, otherwise one might experience the dreaded bottle neck. For me to use a Nvidia Geforce GTX 1060 in this machine, as it is presently configured, would be a waste of resources. My Processor is an Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2500K CPU @ 3.30GHz, 3301 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s), 1145 pin socket, I'm pretty sure, and to upgrade this one means only one step higher. This would require more research, but I think I could upgrade the processor to an i7 something. But the question I have no answer for is, would this be enough for the newer video card? I'm clueless to power requirements and resource allocation for the bits and pieces of the computer. To use gear head lingo, it's like I'd be in danger of slapping a Holly 750 on a 4 cylinder and not know it.
Then there's Tekk's route to PC nirvana, let someone else do the piecing together, which I like very much. It's good to have the links others have used in the interest of not getting ripped off. But then there's the price, as in how much do I really need? Maybe I should start with the video card and work from there. :?:
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Re: A dangerous place

Postby TWC_Brett » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:19 am

Hey Target. We touched on this briefly the other day when we were flying but I reckon the way forward is how I built my rig. I originally looked at buying all the parts as Tekk mentioned and stitching it together over time.
I started researching because like you, I was unsure around what would be compatible with what, would this bottleneck that component etc etc.
Now, I'm not really a patient person and eventually I came across a company called Cyberpower who have pre-configured systems that are spec matched but will also give advice and offer upgrades on certain components so all remains compatible.
Also, when I priced everything up separately, the minimal additional cost to have an expert build it, pre install OS, test it and give me a warranty made much more sense.
I didn't spend the earth on it but built to a spec so that it is future proof for a good while, using the latest motherboard and CPU. Still runs CloD like a dream 18 months on (apart from really heavy load when it slows very marginally) but then my graphics card is not the strongest. Next on my shopping list!
Anyhoo, that's my two pennies worth. Good luck.
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Re: A dangerous place

Postby TWC_Creep » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:31 am

Slightly off topic and don't mean to derail, but I'm curious if anyone's machine runs CLOD 100% smooth on maxed out detail settings even when you are low over a populated area with lots of clouds, flak, other planes, etc? I do notice that my framerate dips slightly when I am in that situation. I thought that my machine would be able to handle anything CLOD could throw at it, but maybe I'm wrong?

  • Intel Core i7-5820K Haswell-E 6-Core 3.3 GHz LGA 2011-v3 140W BX80648I75820K Desktop Processor
  • ASRock X99 Extreme4 LGA 2011-v3 Intel X99 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
  • SAMSUNG 950 PRO M.2 2280 256GB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
  • 1 x EVGA GeForce GTX 980 Ti 06G-P4-4995-KR 6GB SC+ GAMING w/ACX 2.0+
  • 16GB RAM

Again sorry to derail... hoping that this information might help you make your decision about what kind of hardware to get (so that you can get a good sense of how your performance will be at what detail settings).
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Re: A dangerous place

Postby TWC_NINja » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:27 pm

I sorta re-built mine... picked up a used old beast of a machine from Craigslist for cheap and slowly upgraded as budget allowed. Starting with SSD, then more RAM, then CPU & cooling system, then GPU, etc... you get the idea.

Didn't have to wait and ponder and spin my wheels "trying to decide". Got a rig right away to start flying in CLOD (albeit, with some lowered settings). Or I should say, "learn to not crash or get killed instantly". And with every upgrade, I just enjoyed improved performance and a better experience in CLOD (and DCS). Took me about 6 months to get everything up to snuff.

And it's served me well since 2014. (touch wood)
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Re: A dangerous place

Postby TWC_NINja » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:30 pm

TWC_Creep wrote:I thought that my machine would be able to handle anything CLOD could throw at it, but maybe I'm wrong?


It's not your system, Creep... it's CLOD. Micro stutters and framerate drops are inevitable. I believe it has to do with the core game engine.
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Re: A dangerous place

Postby TWC_Creep » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:13 am

TWC_NINja wrote:It's not your system, Creep... it's CLOD. Micro stutters and framerate drops are inevitable. I believe it has to do with the core game engine.


Okay good to know, thanks! I might fiddle with some of the NVIDIA settings that BOO posted about over in the ATAG forums and see if I can't get slightly better performance in the situations I described. Here's hoping 4.5 or 5.0 improve performance in addition to graphics!
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Re: A dangerous place

Postby Tekk » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:42 pm

Those stutters can definitely be caused by a non optimized game. It seems like a lot of sim games are cpu bound. Meaning that the cpu is maxed out and the gpu is running only like 50%. Therefore causing a low end gpu and a high end gpu to preform the same as far as frame rates goes. A quick google search broke it down like this. CPU = Number of objects displayed. GPU = Number of polygons displayed. In the situation of cliffs big cities, the houses are relatively low polly ( I'm willing to bet anyways ) but there are a lot of them, meaning cpu is doing the work.

Also a lot of games are not optimized to take advantage of multiple CPU cores, meaning 1 core will be working at 100% while the other 5 are doing nothing. This can also happen to games that are not optimized for using two video cards in sli or crossfire. Sometimes that second card will just be idle unless the game is optimized for dual gpu setups.

As for ram goes...I'm not really sure how that comes into play for games. Adding more ram could potentially help....or it could do nothing.

Going Back to Targets original post. Your webistes will be different then the ones I use since I'm up in North America, but for the one you posted, I would not trust the "speed rating" that they have posted. A higher rating on that site is not necessarily better or any faster for your desired use. For example, anything more then a 4 core cpu would be a waste in cliffs since it is most likely not able to take advantage of the extra cores.


Oh, a really good site that i used to help me get a feel for parts was http://www.logicalincrements.com/
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